Oct. 6, 2023
Britain and France have already provided them, and a U.S. announcement is expected soon.
Here’s what we’re covering:
- Pressure is building on Germany to send long-range missiles to Ukraine.
- Russia is trying to rejoin the U.N. Human Rights Council. The vote could be close.
- E.U. leaders hold talks on the consequences of accepting Ukraine as a member.
- Stockholm offers fighter jets for Ukraine if Sweden is allowed to join NATO.
- The attack on Hroza killed one in six of the village’s remaining residents, officials say.
- Europe pledges more air defense systems to help Ukraine fend off attacks on infrastructure.
With Ukraine’s counteroffensive moving slowly and Britain and France providing long-range missiles to Kyiv, pressure is building on Germany to transfer some of its own.
The Biden administration has made no public indication that it is sending its long-range Army Tactical Missile Systems — known as ATACMS and pronounced “attack ’ems” — to give Ukraine a boost in the counteroffensive against Russian forces. But European officials and security experts say they expect a U.S. announcement soon, raising the stakes for Chancellor Olaf Scholz to donate Germany’s Taurus missiles.
“He is under extreme pressure and might want to end this discussion,” Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, the head of the Bundestag’s Defense Committee, said Thursday in an interview. “But if the Americans will give a green light for delivery of their ATACMS, then maybe.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/06/world/russia-ukraine-news
Seriously now, Scholz can’t possibly be so dumb or cowardly to believe his own lie; that mafia land could still escalate and perhaps draw Germany into the war. Doesn’t the moron read the news and add one and one?
Anyhow, between Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann and Scholz, it was always Marie-Agnes with the bigger balls.
Especially with Germany’s history of nazism. They see it again and their leader is performing like Neville Chamberlain…
Scholz is living proof of Germany’s inability to create a viable foreign policy.
A nuclear armed shithole ruled by a maniac dictator has decided to provide military assistance to another nuclear armed shithole led by a maniac dictator as it inflicts a much smaller neighbour with planned, systematic genocide.
Yet Germany, which used to be ruled by a maniac dictator who murdered eight million Ukrainians, refuses to provide its former victim with the means to help it defend itself from monsters.
A reminder: Ukraine never received a penny in reparations from Germany.
Germany and France fucked Ukraine over twice : first in 2008; refusing Nato membership and in 2014, when both rotten nations conspired with Russia, which had just murdered 14,000 Ukrainians, to inflict the unworkable Minsk 1&2 on them.
Russia never complied with Minsk anyway, since it required a total withdrawal.
Now we see France contributing in comparison to the size of its economy, an insulting amount to Ukraine.
Germany has done more, but relative to the terrible crimes it committed on Ukraine in the past, its contribution is negligible.
The very least Sholz can do if he has any shred of integrity, is send 90% of his Taurus inventory, plus many more modern MBT’s, artillery, ammo and modern jets.
Scholz is virtually alone with this decision. The biggest majority of German politicians want Taurus to be sent to Ukraine ASAP. I don’t know why the West has such strong politicians but such very weak leaders, which can even ruin a wet dream.
@Scradgel
you don’t learn anything and you always repeat the same bullshit at the beginning I thought you were 20-30 years old but now I tell myself that you must be at the age where we always tell the same stories and that it was better before etc…
On the other hand, since you are looking for those responsible for the current disaster, you can start to wonder about your Jeffrey Sachs and his shocking economic methods – which at the collapse of the USSR would have caused 3.2 million deaths and which by the trauma caused made the bed for Poutine and his spirit of revenge.
sweep in front of your door, before to allow yourself to spit on others unfairly!
That France and Germany refused entry into NATO made sense/was understandable and was in itself neither a mistake nor a betrayal at the time. many other factors must be added so that at the end 30 years later, it can appear to be one. you have to add a lot of bullshit from your group in particular. be nice stop being dishonest and complacent with yourself it’s really not a pretty sight! try to be better 😉
in 2014 the Minsk agreements saved Ukraine, because its army was being defeated by the separatists, they would have gone to the capital. when we see the occupation with the purges, the torture, in your opinion, how many people did it save? and this allowed the Ukrainians to maintain how many chances of being able to resume the struggle in better conditions, to be able to fight and to be free? Are you interested in the truth or are you no better than the Russians?
(lorangebleue)
“in 2014 the Minsk agreements saved Ukraine, because its army was being defeated by the separatists”
Now you’re the one talking BS. There were no separatists, even Girkin admitted it was russian troops in Donbas. So before attacking other people on this site, do your homework.
It was wrong to deny Ukraine (and Georgia) NATO membership. It’s funny how it was only Germany and France who refused this. All the other NATO members said yes. So, this means, only Germany and France were right and all the rest were wrong? Neither Sarkozy nor Merkel were ever good politicians. They are both classical examples for them being better off selling hot dogs than leading countries.
Maybe you can provide some proof that Sachs’ economical methods would’ve caused 3.2 million deaths. Never heard of this bull before.
And, the Minsk agreements didn’t save Ukraine. It was a foul deal, forced on Ukraine by the two assholes called Merkel and Hollande. The agreement was a dead horse anyway, because hostilities continued before the ink was dry.
Scradge is very right to repeat the deplorable performance of the collective West. I do so, too, regularly. With more courage, foresight, and brains, this war could’ve been won already. With the right leaders in place, this war would’ve never even started. But, with leaders like Merkel, Sarkozy, Hollande, Obama, Biden, and the rest of the loser gang, this war was inevitable. Such pathetic politicians as I mentioned above gave the mafia runt nothing but green lights for this escalation.
Sachs was awarded Poland’s highest honour for rescuing their economy. It goes downhill after that.
In May 2022, Sachs said that the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 would be hard to beat and that Finland’s moves to join NATO would undermine a negotiated peace: “All of this talk of defeating Russia, to my mind, is reckless.” In June 2022, he co-signed an open letter calling for a “ceasefire” in the war, questioning Western countries’ continuing military support for Ukraine.
In 2022, he appeared twice on one of the top-rated shows funded by the Russian government, hosted by Vladimir Solovyov, to call for Ukraine to negotiate and step away from its “maximalist demands” of removing Russia from Ukrainian territory.
In 2023, he blamed the United States for its supposed role in the Russo-Ukrainian War, claiming it “wrongly conspired” in the “overthrow” of president Viktor Yanukovych in the 2014 Revolution of Dignity, and then pushed “NATO enlargement to encircle Russia.”
Sachs has suggested that the U.S. was responsible for the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline. In February 2023, he was invited by the Russian government to address the United Nations Security Council about the topic
Never said that Sachs was a good Samaritan, but all this doesn’t prove the other guy’s claim.
Poland suffered after the collapse of the USSR, but recovered thanks to Sachs. The russians approached him, but they failed to reform, probably due to the fact is was run and still is run by the mafia.
There is no helping mafia land. It should just dry up and blow away in the wind. There is no use for such a shithole.
I hate Jeffrey Sachs, you wanker. He’s a scrofulous putinaZi shill. A bit like you.
It was your Russian agent Sarkozy who went to Georgia in 2008, gifted 20% of Georgia to putler and then blamed Georgia for starting the war. The EU then consolidated that lie in an official report.
What I said about Minsk and France-Germany is a demonstrable fact.
Same with France’s pathetic contribution to Ukraine.
@Foccusser
Ultimately, you replace separatists with Russian troops if that makes you happy, it doesn’t change the fact that the Ukrainian forces were buried.
as I don’t have the precise chronology in mind I’ll just tell you this:
Girkin relied on… well Wagner if I remember correctly and on the separatists of Donbass who were primarily local thugs that the Russians used and armed at one point..
the separatists are a creation of Poutine, we know that. and this little world at one point was on the verge of crushing the Ukrainian army
@OFP
for Germany which owes its reunification to the “benevolence” of Gorbachev and by extension to Russia, as well as by some oral agreements, we can understand that it felt linked (same for France) – even if it t was another time and for example this way of seeing, fidelity to this commitment no longer needs to be. especially after all of Poutine’s betrayals. moreover, the leaders had a certain idea of the security architecture or global balances.
for Shachs he also has economic successes in his life. he still has professional esteem. neither all black nor all white 😉
having screwed up at the fall of the USSR does not take away its other merits.
sources are UNICEF and IRC.
if you consider that the Russians (or separatists) who had defeated the Ukrainian army and who would have gone as far as Kyiv would have posed no problem, no harm to the Ukrainian state or to the Ukrainians then ok they owe no thanks. time, History makes the masks fall, what I say if you search you find the information it will be in the History books. Poroshenko asked Merkel for help first and together with French President Hollande they did everything to reach an agreement that would stop the collapse. Poutine knows it well and regrets it all the more today! After the diplomatic path taken had no other effect than allowing Ukraine to assemble its armed forces, and the diplomatic path had few other effects, I agree. Sometimes we have the choice between the plague and cholera…
that’s why from afar, without knowing anything by simplifying the equations, they seem like assholes, in these circumstances and at this time could we have done better?
(I’m not talking about Sarkozy who seems to me to have done nothing but stupid things and to have betrayed everyone in the final… for Saakashvili he is very harsh towards Sarko)
I think you are not being fair to Hollande.
but I’ve already said it here for myself, what ultimately made the aggression possible: Obama’s red line and nordstream2. from there the catastrophe is inevitable.
COVID, which isolated Poutine with just two or three weirdos, must have helped a little too.
the biggest contributors to the EU are France and Germany, what Poland gives and the others they sell to the EU. there is even talk of paying for the F16…
the EU’s contribution to Ukraine is greater than that of the US.
except for the armament. European defense industries are regularly weakened by those of the US. currently it saves Ukraine, but it also has a perverse effect for Europeans as well as for the US.
Everyone has understood that we cannot rely too much on the US for various reasons, it’s not good for anyone, and Ukraine must become more autonomous.
I’m not saying either that the Westerners haven’t missed anything, actually the Russian fascist philosophy has been known since 2014… and all the non-autonomized allies have aligned themselves with the policeman of the world… who just gave small sanctions.
if the French were not up to the task it would be known but that is not what is being said among the Ukrainians for the moment 😉
I think that the world has become much more complex since then and that a Reagan would perhaps be completely outdated….
@scradgel
if you intends to demonstrate a conspiracy by France and Germany to fuck Ukraine. I’ll laugh in advance. You are going to face your public humiliation, I prefer to warn you!
(I think you attribute intentions to others that you have yourself.)
I don’t know why you keep insisting that the Ukrainians were defeated in the first war in Ukraine. This convinces me that you are completely uninformed about this.
At no time was the Ukrainian army defeated. It turned out to be a stalemate, and this only thanks to massive support from mafia land. The common “separatists” were indeed from the Donbas, but their leadership were ruskies, so were their weapons, ammo, and every other thing one needs to carry on a fight. I know this for a fact. Remember, the mafia army was never able to take more than about one-third of the Donbas.
Everyone forgets that Germany’s reunification was made possible not only by Gorbachev, but also by the affirmation from the United States. We could’ve said no and that would’ve been the end of it. Merkel and Sarkozy are fools and were terrible politicians. Merkel wanted cheap fossil fuels from mafia land, and that is the core reason why she refused Ukraine’s entry into NATO.
Both Merkel and Sarkozy never had any ideas about a proper “security architecture” or “global balances”. They failed not only in the aftermath of the Crimean theft, and the first war in Ukraine, but they are responsible for laying the foundation for this war. This war is their legacy. With Ukraine in NATO, there would be no war now at all.
I tried to say that the Ukrainian army at the time – before Minsk therefore, was going to lose control, if there had not been an interruption of the dynamic (thanks to the Minsk agreements) then the situation would have led to defeat and collapse (next step which did not happen). Is it the translation that is wrong?
Minsk is Poroshenko Merkell Holland…
if you listen to them you will get the information.
we can easily imagine that the Ukrainian army which watched the green men take Crimea, that the Ukrainian army of 2014 is not the same as that of 2022. it has had time to learn and strengthen itself.
certainly there have been numerous violations of the ceasefire of the Minsk agreements but there have been fewer and fewer of them and this time has not particularly benefited Putin…
I like to be fair with people (even with Merkel who I don’t hold in my heart) I aspire to the truth not to legends.
Certainly Westerners have made mistakes and are not always up to the task. but when you have a fascist neighbor with whom you are at war and you have not even built a shell production factory there are also limits to the lessons you can give to others… so to say the others “screwed Ukraine “you still have to keep moderation in your comments
for the OHCHR, the dead of Donbass:
13,200 is the total number of deaths, on both sides (Ukrainian army: 4100 and Russian-separatists: 5650), including soldiers, militiamen and civilians.
For civilians, it is 3350, including MH17, in 6 years. It is :
2084 deaths in 2014,
954 in 2015,
112 in 2016,
117 in 2017,
55 in 2018,
27 in 2019
and 1 (one) in 2020.
therefore either a desertification of the civilian population, or a reduction in collateral damage, or an overall reduction in the intensity of the fighting…
at the time of reunification the tacit agreement was “no expansion of NATO”… so ok the Russians became so unattractive/disrespectful with a rapist for leader that all their neighbors wanted to join NATO. It’s probably not easy for anyone to “unwind”…
indeed we do not draw the same conclusions from events, and we do not have the same vision, the same way of approaching things. “new world” and “old continent” 😉
There was no defeat, nor an imminent defeat of Ukrainians troops, either before, during, or after Minsk. I know this for a fact. I was there in person. Were you?
“Minsk is Poroshenko Merkell Holland…”
You forgot the stinking rat, Vlad. You also fail to see that Poroshenko didn’t have much to say about the rotten deal that was Minks.
“so to say the others “screwed Ukraine “you still have to keep moderation in your comments”
I saw with confidence that Ukraine got screwed. Not only by Merkel and Hollande, but also by the US and UK … by not adhering to the Budapest Memorandum. The biggest criminal in all of this is mafia land, of course, who also screwed Ukraine, but in the worst way.
“…at the time of reunification the tacit agreement was “no expansion of NATO”
There was no official agreement to this. The only one who said anything like this was Genscher. But, he didn’t have the authority to speak on NATO’s behalf. He also didn’t have the authority to speak on every nation’s behalf who wanted to join NATO. In particular, there was no written agreement.